Talk:Cherub
The Felt The Felt appear to be to some form of cherubim. Is this strictly speculation? (This, however IS speculation: They are Carapacean/Cerbum imbreds or something.) Patman12 13:55, June 17, 2012 (UTC) No, they are leprechauns. 15:58, April 12, 2015 (UTC) English themes? Is it just me, or is there something going on with British/English stuff in the Cherubim. Would this apply to the whole race, or is it just because of the hypothetical link between uu/UU and LE? ~anzkji | chat? 15:13, June 17, 2012 (UTC) : New theory, all British people are Cherubs and are thus evil by nature. Holywood argees with me. : ... *THATS RASIST* : 15:30, June 17, 2012 (UTC) ::[[:File:Sorceror Nobody English.gif|I don't know what you're talking about. I, for one, am from England, and I'm not evil at all]] ::Yes. Good. Help us keep up the facade. The world wont know what hit them. Mwahaha. --Necrosis103 01:37, June 18, 2012 (UTC) "Hemochecimarkaspectrum" This word is clearly misspelled. I believe the author intended to type "floccinaucinihilipilification" instead...? Seriously though, this is a bit too speculative and neologist even for my wildly liberal taste. But it is at least amusingly reminiscent of when one of the trolls presumed that mustache => human subspecies... :D TricksterWolf 02:01, June 18, 2012 (UTC) Cherubs/Cherubim According to page, the plural form of cherub used in-comic is "cherubs". Should the article be changed to reflect this? --YTguy 03:39, June 20, 2012 (UTC) : I definitely think so, I don't know where we got "cherubim" from. Aepokk Venset 03:46, June 20, 2012 (UTC) Cherubim is a valid pluralization of cherub, based on its biblical origins, particularly in hebrew. -- 04:19, June 20, 2012 (UTC) :Yep what Anon said, I would've expected Hussie to use it, however Hussie and as such we should follow in his example. However Hussie used multiple different plurals for Lusus so it is possible that he will switch between Cherubs and Cherubim. The Light6 05:05, June 20, 2012 (UTC) Hmm. I think this needs a small bump because on rereading, I noticed : : To which I would say that it's probably something like "cherubs" for referring to multiple individuals, but "cherubim" to refer to the species as a collective. Tricky one, though... thoughts? EDIT: Actually, we already have a section called "Cherubim folklore", which seems contextually correct... but Ctrl-F also yielded two instances of "cherubim" lurking in the body text in contexts we may wish to evaluate.* So I guess the question just becomes whether we want to address the matter in trivia, and also what we want to do with those two instances Final Face of Demon Mobster Kingpin? Um... has anyone else noticed that Lord Engish and the cherub's faces kind of resemble DMK's final face? I don't know if it's worth putting in trivia, I just noticed it. --BornOn413 00:01, June 28, 2012 (UTC) : I think it would work on the talk page. Chezrush 01:46, June 28, 2012 (UTC) Suggestion I think the image on the page should be a gif that fades between Calliope's chained up sprite and Caliborn's chained up sprite. What does everyone think about that? 15:20, November 26, 2012 (UTC) Eh, sure. +1 supporter ~anzkji | chat? 19:59, November 26, 2012 (UTC) :Done. 09:24, November 27, 2012 (UTC) Biology / English connection So after catching up to the updates (to the comic and to the wiki) I've noticed something missing from the section on cherub biology. According to cherubs have a natural latent connection to the forces presiding over all things eternal, and that immortals (e.g. god tiers) are permeated with this energy. When cherubs tap into the energy they become indestructible and can only be hurt by the cherub they are fight-mating with (the indestructibility and only being hurt by the other cherub is mentioned in the article but not its cause nor the cause's potential connection to Sburb), this offers hints not only to a potential cause of 's indestructibility, but also why an alternate Calliope might be able to harm him, and even a reason why is able to override the god tier revival process. That is why I am bringing it up here instead of just updating the article myself (I will probably do that anyhow), because multiple articles might need to be updated. - The Light6 (talk) 08:39, March 10, 2013 (UTC) :The only part of this I'm not clear on is what you mean by being able to override the god tier revival process. Are you basing this on Hussie's possible status asa god tier and eventual death at 's hands? 18:37, March 10, 2013 (UTC) ::It was stated in Openbound that was able to by-pass the god tier revival process. But the point is, if mating cherubs and god tiers are full of the same energy, and mating cherubs are able to harm and kill each other than it stands to reason that a mating cherub would also be capable of properly killing a god tier. So if 's secret is that he has somehow permanently tapped into this energy (while also not transforming into a giant snake) than it would explain both his alleged indestructibility and the statement that he can kill god tiers. - The Light6 (talk) 23:05, March 10, 2013 (UTC) :::Just for the record, ::::MEENAH: but i think the thing is the skull lord might actually be able to kill god tiers? #at least... #ghost god tiers ::::PORRIM: Can he? ::::MEENAH: like bypass the whole judgment hullabeluga that makes em resurrect #whaaaaales #<3 ::::MEENAH: you know with the fancy clock and all ::::MEENAH: i dunno :::Speculated, not stated, it would appear. He can certainly double-kill ghost god tiers, a distinction Meenah makes in her hashtags, but on the subject of alpha timeline living god tiers, nothing concrete is said ::Well no wonder I didn't make a note of it, I passed it off as him simply being able to kill any ghost at the time. On the note of him possessing the same energy as mating cherubs, that would definitely explain the flashing aura surrounding him that we didn't see in the other cherubs until they mated. 23:19, March 10, 2013 (UTC) Cherubdad's victims I'm confused, what planet in what session did Cherubdad destroy? Beforus, Alternia, a troll colony??? 20:17, March 26, 2013 (UTC) : I took it to be a troll colony on some random planet. Certainly can't be alpha timeline Alternia, and I doubt it was Beforus. 20:47, March 26, 2013 (UTC) ::Why can't it be alpha timeline Alternia? Alternians conquered many planets, why couldn't Cherubdad destroy one of them? 13:44, March 27, 2013 (UTC) :::No he's saying it can't be the planet Alternia itself. 14:10, March 27, 2013 (UTC) ::::Ohhhh, I misunderstood that, thought he was saying it couldn't be the people of alpha timeline Alternia. lol 15:31, March 27, 2013 (UTC) "Unique Circumstances" "While Calliope suggested thathttp://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006993 her circumstances with Caliborn were unique, the narrative prompt suggestshttp://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007381 that being born with split personalities is typical of cherubs, with one personality winning out and dominating the entire body once the cherub has achieved maturity." I'm pretty sure Calliope was just referring to it being unique that a cherub was playing Sburb, something that Aranea says should never happen later in her story. 03:13, June 8, 2013 (UTC) :That's still there? Anon IP has a point, we should remove or reword it. Thoughts? 18:21, June 8, 2013 (UTC) :What Calliope said could also have more broadly referred to being chained to the wall on a meteor(ite) equipped with all of the stuff they grew up with (e.g., boxes of special stardust, a sarswapagus, computers to start sessions on and copies of the game, and so on), as the amenities of their room appear to primarily be a result of Gamzee playing caretaker - this probably goes for their respective Juju lollipops, Caliborn's Ophiuchus shirt and Calliope's Caduceus-symbol suit and Cancer cufflinks, and even their shared modus. :I mean, it's one thing for Cherubs to normally be born on a dead planet near a dying star, but the particulars of their starting conditions - including being cared for early on by a juggalo troll in a purple codpiece - sound very atypical for a Cherub's early years, based on what we know of their life cycle. tachyonTrajectory (talk) 19:44, June 8, 2013 (UTC) Relations with Karkat Okay, maybe this is just me, but has anyone noticed that the cherubs sorta represent Karkat? Because we have Caliborn, a redblood, who's all angsty and angry and basically acts like Karkat only a whole lot meaner, and then we have Calliope, a limeblood, who's pretty cheerful and happy. And I figure if the limebloods hadn't been wiped out, Karkat would've been one. So basically, Caliborn represents canon Karkat, and Calliope represents Karkat as he would have been, had the limebloods not been wiped out. (Of course, Karkat would've still been a boy. Duh.) Or maybe this is just me. Whatever. 04:34, June 15, 2013 (UTC) :And the Cancer cufflinks. And the fact that his typing color lies directly between theirs. And Caliborn's drawn-out speech about suffering. You might want to check out Calliope and Caliborn's trivia sections. 04:56, June 15, 2013 (UTC) ::And that. (I've read the trivia sections, actually, but thanks anyways!) Point is, I'm pretty sure the cherubs are related to Karkat somehow or other, and perhaps Hussie will bring that up later. (That or I'm reading into this too much, which is entirely possible.) ::-- 13:24, June 15, 2013 (UTC) Right, all I was saying was that you're not the first to notice this. And we can't really claim any relation unless it's canonically confirmed, which The Light6 pointed out probably won't happen. And I have to agree with him. (But we'll see) 18:16, June 15, 2013 (UTC) :::Fairly sure all connections to Karkat were just red herrings (like the ones Caliborn alleges swim through his veins). Given these were mostly give prior to the revelation of cherubs and were subsequently ignored, it is likely that they won't be brought up again. - The Light6 (talk) 14:50, June 15, 2013 (UTC) Well, who knows?-- 19:12, June 16, 2013 (UTC) Another Karkat-Cherub connection is the similarity of the symbols ♋ and ☯. Also, Kankri's lack of symbol and lusus (he was raised by Porrim somehow) suggests that he was the only redblood of Beforus. Beforus!Karkat could then very well have been limeblooded. -- 16:53, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :Umm, do you know how the scratch works? It is literally impossible for Beforus!Karkat to be anything other than candy red blood. - The Light6 (talk) 21:48, August 20, 2013 (UTC) ::Plus the lack of a symbol could mean something as simple as Beforus!Karkat not having done anything significant or notable with his life. Which is actually kinda sad. On another note, Porrim raised Kankri? Did I miss that somehow? 22:05, August 20, 2013 (UTC) Yellow/Purple Duality Someone edited my post in the trivia saying that there isn't much evidence of Cherubs showing purple / yellow duality, so I'll just post a few examples; *On this very page there's a picture of Caliborn and Calliope's parents fighting eachother with their rainbow-breath freeze-framed on yellow and purple *The Hope and Rage aspects which the two HS cherubs seem to be closely linked to **Eridan and Gamzee, the heroes of these two aspects respectively, are the two trolls (apart from, speculatively, Karkat) who are most closely linked to the cherubs **Jane and Roxy's denizens - two of the Alpha Kid denizens are linked to the cherubs (Yaldaboath is actually Caliborn's denizen, Abraxas is clearly tied to them somehow) so I think it's fair to think that the other two are as well, seeing as it would be strange to have Void and Life, two otherwise unrelated aspects, share similar denizens in such a way - Hemera and Nyx, who are purple and yellow *The Trickster text colours are light pink and pale yellow, which are light versions of yellow and purple *And of course their dream planets in the medium JakeMorph (talk) 07:57, November 28, 2013 (UTC) :I knew the Prospit and Derse part, that they respectively dream on those planets (in fact I said it), but I was saying by itself it doesn't really count as a pattern. I'm not gonna count the flashing rainbow auras, because they display several colors, even if two of the pairs do happen to be red/green and purple/yellow. I'll admit, I do see the links between the Cherubs and those two particular trolls. Hell, I predicted Calliope and Caliborn would be heroes of Hope and Rage respectively, I think before I even considered Hope/Rage a pairing. Hope and Rage are also yellow and purple, and interestingly there seems to be a reversal, with our Rage player being a Prospit dreamer and our Hope player being native to Derse. I think the trickster text example is entirely stretching the connection. I also think the denizens thing is pushing it slightly too, and it's probably more of a reference to Prospit and Derse themselves than the Cherubs. :Bottom line, I'm seeing a lot of yellow/purple duality, especially as of late, but I really don't think we can say that it applies to the cherubs themselves. Of course, I'm willing to listen to outside opinions. 23:54, November 28, 2013 (UTC) Cherub god tier 1 body. 2 different dream selves. What would happen? The3rdplayer (talk) 00:07, December 5, 2013 (UTC) :Alrighty lucky for you, I've thought this over several times before. Bottom line before we start: Caliborn is an asshole, they both could have lived, had separate bodies, and both been god tiers. After Caliborn had Calliope assassinated, she could have been placed on her quest crypt in the center of Prospit. After that, she would have her own body as an ascended Muse of Space, and Caliborn would have both bodies, so he could ascend to god tier by either method. I'm not sure what would happen to the main body if he ascended by quest crypt without killing the main body. Anyway, then they both could be their respective god tiers and fully autonomous. :Actually, come to think of it, if say Caliborn was awake, and then Calliope killed the main body and then kissed it, they could both have autonomous bodies without even having to ascend! 00:13, December 5, 2013 (UTC) ::I'm not sure the first idea would have worked, the sacrificial slab works with the player's last life, Calliope lost her dream self first leaving her shared waking body as her last life. ::In any case, taking a quick look at the general process, a player's waking self can die (or suffer a fatal injury but for this thought experiment lets just go with die) and then the dream self beings to follow the waking self on a delay. We don't actually know if a dream self in such circumstances can use the sacrificial slabs, they could go and rest on theirs and wait for their automatic injuries to kill them before reviving and ascending (thus eliminating the middle man of corpsesmooching or the quest bed). However for all we know the dream self first needs to be revived via corpsesmooching to become the new "real" self before the sacrificial slab will work. I mean it could work but without work of Huss we don't know. But in any case it wouldn't fit Calliope's circumstances. ::However I do believe there is a clear way it could work. First in the lead up to predomination , so lets just say that Caliborn would've predominated had he not forced it prematurely, Calliope would then grow weaker. When Calliope knew that when she would die upon falling asleep she could have went and slept on her quest sarswapagus as she fell asleep Caliborn would predominate and she would die causing her to rise up as a god tier in her dream body. Caliborn would be left with the real body and his own dream self and would function like a normal player for dream self/ascension purposes. - The Light6 (talk) 02:02, December 5, 2013 (UTC) :::But the second method I listed would work fine and be a lot less complicated, right? And they both just live on as their dream selves. 02:40, December 5, 2013 (UTC) Ancient Serpent Bones I'm pretty that the bones in part 1 of Meeahquest are suposed to be Alternian dinoaur skeleton from Aradia's memories, like the ones around the blue Frog Temple. (Although I'm guessing that they're probably also intended as a deliberate allusion to the cherubs and / or Abraxas.) -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 11:30, February 4, 2014 (UTC) :Is it really that much of a stretch to infer from Openbound that the bones Aradia found near the frog temple on Alternia were cherub bones all along? 21:34, February 4, 2014 (UTC) ::Yeah personally I think those bones (and retroactively the bones from around the Temple) were pretty obviously supposed to be Cherub bones. But that's just an opinion I guess. ::JakeMorph (talk) 07:55, February 5, 2014 (UTC) Gender Does anyone have an idea on how gender works? Its clear there is a difference, in terms of reproduction, between male and femal cherubs but all cherubs are born with both a male and female 1/2 (or at least Calliope and Caliborn were). So how can they have any one gender if they are already both? The2ndplayer (talk) 12:41, April 4, 2014 (UTC) :Based off in Aranea's exposition and certain real life species, I am fairly sure that cherubim that are yet to predominate do not actually have a sex yet, the two halves have a gender, but gender isn't sex. Once a cherub predominates its sex develops into the predominate cherub's gender. Of course, based on their reproduction there seems to be little difference between the sexes, with gender being a more dominant feature of their species. :Of course I'm only speculating. But that is all I can give you. - The Light6 (talk) 13:24, April 4, 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks Light. The2ndplayer (talk) 16:47, April 4, 2014 (UTC) retractable lips Holy fucking fuck I just found out a parralell to a previous work cherubs can talk and spit but then pull their lips back to show their entire jaw Humanimals can too Revitalysis (talk) 03:49, December 20, 2014 (UTC) Sciency Stuff I'm wondering if the scientific details are really necessary for the cherub page. I mean, I was the one who added it, but do we really actually need to know about their trophic level or neurological capabilities? I mean, really, why don't we look at evolutionary and developmental theories next too? oh wait... Revitalysis (talk) 04:51, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ☯ So, as the cherubs have allusions to Yin and Yang, who should be Yin and who should be Yang? First I thought Calliope was Yin and Caliborn was Yang, beclaws Caliborn is female and Caliborn male. But I found evidence against that hypothese. Look. Calliope is a Space player. Space is strongly tied to creation, and creation is represented by the color white = Yang. Also she uses a lighter color text. Look. Caliborn is a Time player. Time is strongly tied to destruciton, and destruction is represented by the color black = Yin. Also, at first, he uses a darker color text. Notice that the Yin Yang symbol has two little dots of each others color, and the cherubs are chained with the other ones symbol. 15:47, April 12, 2015 (UTC) Regarding Cherubic Biology Question: Where did we learn that adult cherubim can sustain themselves on solar energy? I don't recall reading it in-comic. 04:00, August 27, 2015 (UTC)